Hello and welcome to Penned in Ink, a podcast where we discuss marriage and the power of long-lasting love.
Do you have that one friend who always likes to give you their thoughts on who you are dating?
Or do you have that aunt or uncle or sister or brother who has struggled in their relationship and is always willing to give you their thoughts on yours?
I think to some degree we all have friends or family that want to weigh in on how we choose to build our relationships and often those people cause unnecessary drama in our lives, even if they come from a place of good intentions.
For those of you who are joining us for the first time, I'm Michael.
I'm here with my wife, Melissa.
We've been married over 30 years and on this podcast we dig into all sorts of relationship topics with the goal of showing you what a healthy and positive long-lasting marriage looks like.
Today, we are diving into the prickly subject of managing friends and family as you grow in your relationship and work to build a life together.
This is going to be an interesting one today.
We're going to touch on some difficult areas that we have dealt with over our years together and that many of you have probably experienced as well.
Ready to get to it?
Anything you want to mention before we go piling into this topic?
No, no, let's just get started.
I feel like we start every one of these with this could be interesting because I think one of the challenges you have, especially when you start talking about friends and family and what we refer to as the outer circle, you have the chance to sort of offend or hurt people's feelings or such.
And as we go through this, we're aware that we have friends and family who listen.
And so we just kind of want to be respectful, but also honest.
So we'll see how this goes.
Yeah.
Let's start by exploring areas where friends may often overstep and when in your relationship might you expect to get even more unsolicited advice?
So what's the first area where you often see people overstepping in your relationship?
Yeah, very early on.
It's about the the person you're dating, who you're spending your time with, and maybe people don't approve, don't think they're good enough, think they're a bad influence on you, or they're changing you.
What does good enough mean?
I always love that one in a relationship.
We have daughters, they're 26, and I think as one of our daughters has been dating, or maybe actually now that I say that, even in early for the other, I think there's been a little bit of that not good enough for you commenting between them.
What does that mean, not good enough?
I think close family and friends have high expectations, and if somebody isn't smart enough, motivated enough, driven enough in their career, maybe intellectually challenging enough, maybe motivated enough.
Yeah, I think you hear that one quite often, but it's such a big catch-all for a whole bunch of different things.
One of the things we were as we were talking about this was when someone says that they're probably coming from a respect for you and not necessarily disrespect of your partner, but that's one of those sort of early feedback stuff, not good enough for you.
Yeah.
I think another one we hear a lot of is, well, you're spending all your time with them, you're not spending time with me.
Let's talk about that a little bit.
Yeah, and I think it's to be expected.
If somebody usually has open access to you and now you're spending time with somebody else, they're like, hey, wait a minute, what about me?
Right, that whole concept of you're moving too fast, you're spending all your time with them.
We used to do that.
Now, I think some of the motivation for that comes from a little bit of jealousy potentially of, hey, we had this really good relationship.
Now you have another person who is maybe equally as positive of a relationship or strong as a relationship that you're choosing to spend time and you're spending time with them over me.
I think managing that with your friends, managing that with close siblings, managing that with family, that whole sort of jealousy of I kind of want you to myself and now I have to share you with somebody else.
Yeah, absolutely.
And some people feel that, oh, I'm losing this person to someone else, be it a daughter or a son, a best friend.
I'm losing them to someone else.
Right.
I think you brought up the term enmeshment.
So we talked about jealousy as one of those drivers of complaints when you're not spending time or you're spending all your, you know, you're not spending enough time with me.
What's enmeshment and how does that get involved?
Yeah, enmeshment is actually an unhealthy relationship type where people are, the boundaries are blurred between them, be that about their finances.
Like a parent talking to a child about finances, a young child and saying, oh, we're having money troubles or, no, you don't talk to him about that kind of thing.
Or a mom talking to her daughter about her relationship with her dad and say, oh, he's such a such a jerk and say, you know, that's overstepping.
That's enmeshment.
It's an unhealthy relationship that shouldn't exist.
Okay.
So one of the reasons that someone in your young adult life or adult life might be giving you unsolicited advice is because their relationship with you has been inappropriate maybe in the level of interaction for a long time, not just because of your relationship.
Gives them the sense that they're allowed to speak into your life, right?
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, that entitlement piece.
It happens a lot more in families than it does with friends.
And it's it's one of those, you know, I gave birth to you.
I've raised you.
I've had this unfettered access to you and maybe a little bit of you owe me kind of thing and now you're spending time with somebody else and that's not healthy.
Makes sense.
I think this is probably a good time to mention that Melissa is a therapist and she spends a lot of time working with adults and their relationships.
So when she mentions I see this a lot, it means she sees it in her practice a lot.
I think that is a very good.
I yeah, kind of left that out that that's not.
Yeah, that I don't see it a lot in my private life, but I see it a lot.
Yeah, well, we'll get into some examples from our private life of this happening because we're not unique.
We've definitely had examples of this and we'll share some of those and but when Melissa says, yeah, I've seen it a lot, it's because of who you work with and often they come to you because of that issue.
Not right.
Not.
Yeah, exactly.
It just comes up.
It's part of the issue.
I think another area where you're gonna get unsolicited advice and we've gotten this and this has been something we've had to deal with is as you form a stronger relationship with your partner and you're progressing through the stages where you're not just dating, but maybe you're engaged.
Maybe you're early on in your marriage.
You're gonna be wanting to develop your own traditions, your own holiday celebrations, your own, take your own vacations and where historically you might have gone on the family trip or you might have spent Christmas Eve and Christmas Day at your parents house.
Now you've all of a sudden got a partner that you need to not only divide the time between your family and theirs, but you also have to create your own space for your own holidays, your own traditions, your own vacations.
So I think that's another area that you're going to get feedback and you're gonna get comments and unsolicited advice.
You should be here or you should go with us.
Okay, maybe that doesn't work for us.
Right.
Exactly.
What other areas?
We'll hit one or two more and all of this is leading up to exploring all the areas you might get feedback so that we can then talk about how do you handle that and set boundaries.
So just to give you a sense of where we're going and why we care about where all these areas are.
Right.
What's another one?
Right, absolutely.
Sometimes they don't approve because they feel the person is too different from you.
You're religious, they are not or rich versus poor or political affiliation and oh, they're too different.
You guys will never, your relationship can never last.
Right.
Wrong side of the tracks.
Exactly.
I think that's, it's an old school way of saying it, but it's very true.
Yeah, absolutely.
So the idea here is to just mention a few areas that people will sometimes overstep and they'll want to give advice into your relationship.
Let's pivot a little bit and go through some times in your life where you might get even more of that type of feedback.
So we talked about the areas.
Here are some, just a list of some times in your life where this is gonna probably come up even more when you decide to move in with somebody.
Yep.
Back in our day, we didn't move in together partially because of your family's background being a little bit more religious, but also it wasn't quite as common thing to live together before you, before you got engaged or married.
But I think today you're getting a lot more people who are cohabitating early before they're in a fully committed relationship.
And if you've got old school grandparents or you've got mom and dad that are a little more traditional, probably gonna get some comments there.
Got any other areas that come to mind?
Yeah, absolutely, you know, and then when you get engaged, when in the wedding planning, you know, there are, everybody has an opinion when it comes to the wedding planning.
Moms, dads, aunts, uncles, grandparents, siblings.
And the one I remember is you and I decided to get married in a vineyard and we were really excited about that.
And my dad called me one day out of the blue while we were doing planning of the wedding and said, hey, it'd mean a lot to your grandmother if you got married in a church.
And he was very kind about it.
We talked about it and I told him how important it was to us that we get married at the vineyard and he said, okay, but he felt that he needed to say something and it was a very respectful conversation.
So I don't have, luckily, I don't have any negative memories.
I just remember that he, he asked me if I would reconsider.
Yeah, so that's an example of someone speaking in, maybe unsolicited, but in a genuine, honest, respectful way.
Keep in mind, that's not always how it happens.
Sometimes it comes in much more directive and much more forceful and with entitlement.
And I don't think that example at all was entitlement.
That was more expressing concern.
Not all the feedback you're gonna get from your outer circle is gonna come from an area of malice.
Yeah.
But some of it is.
Yeah.
I think a couple other big areas when you start your family.
Oh.
People love to give you parenting advice.
People love to give you or to, maybe I was gonna say inwardly, but maybe even outwardly judge how you are choosing to raise your kids.
And this is an area we're not gonna dig a whole lot into because our focus is more on your relationship with your partner and less on parenting and family.
That's an area where you're going to get lots of feedback because everybody has things and thoughts to share on there.
And then another one is when you make big purchases.
People always have something to say about big purchases, be it a house, be it a new car, be it, I used to say a big-screen TV, but today TVs are so damn cheap, nobody complains about that.
But anytime you make a big financial decision, people always have lots of opinions around finances.
Okay, so we've given you a sense of the areas and the times in your life where we have gotten unsolicited advice in our relationship.
Let's give you three takeaways from this section before we move on.
There are many areas where the outer circle may want to be giving you advice.
Just be ready for it.
It's gonna come.
The outer circle, and just for reference, we refer to the outer circle as anybody but you and your partner.
The outer circle may be coming from a positive place, but they also may be coming from feelings of jealousy, enmeshment, entitlement.
So just be aware as you're receiving input.
Some of it is well-intended.
Some of it is coming from an unhealthy spot.
And one of your goals is to understand the difference.
It's to identify when someone truly has your best interest in mind, or when they're just overstepping and falling into one of these other areas.
And then the last one is, be willing to put your relationship at the center of your decision-making, especially around building new habits and traditions.
We are big believers that once you fully commit to somebody, and by that I mean marriage, when you're still dating, even engaged, it's a different beast.
But once you're married, you have to be making decisions that are in the best interest of you and your partner, and just be willing to do that, and understand that not everybody's gonna be happy with the decisions you make.
Yeah, anything else on those takeaways?
No, no.
I think those are good.
All right.
We just shared several areas that we personally have experienced social struggles and received unsolicited advice.
What areas are your friends and family chiming in on that are unwanted?
Let us know in the comments.
Let's now pivot to setting boundaries around these external pressures.
As a reminder, Melissa is a mental health professional who helps individuals navigate relationship issues, so this will be a mix of her professional knowledge and our lived experiences.
So, when do boundaries need to be set?
What is the difference between healthy advice and guidance from trusted voices and overstepping into issues that require the creation of boundaries?
Melissa, how about you give us some examples of when it turns from simple advice to something that needs a boundary?
I think when it becomes habitual, when for the fourth or fifth time Aunt Martha says, what kind of job is that anyway, in response to your partner?
And you've already, it happens all the time, it becomes frequent, it becomes more intense, and you'll kind of know when it starts to irritate you.
That's not usually on the first or second pass, but you'll start to feel it.
Right, so negative talking about your spouse in this case, or spouse or partner in this case, that's repetitive.
I think one of the things that comes to mind for me when you talk about that is be mindful of how you talk about your partner with your friends and family, because the way you refer to your partner sort of sets the tone and maybe the level and expectation of how your friends and family will talk about your partner.
So, when you have maybe conflict or stuff, I'm not saying don't confide in trusted voices, but just be careful about, oh, so-and-so always does this, or he never does this for me, or she never does this.
Be careful with that, because I think you're conditioning your outer circle on how it's acceptable to talk about your partner.
Is that a fair assessment?
Yeah, absolutely, and I've known of a lot of people that regret, oh, I wish I wouldn't have told them this, because we worked it out, and now they have this negative feeling about my significant other.
Yeah, I think these are fine lines, right?
Because you want your support system around you, but you have to be aware of how you talk about your spouse or your partner with that circle.
I think this is something that I see a lot of casual snarkiness about your partner that can lead to just an overall negative impression of your partner.
Just be really mindful of that.
I think what might be a passing annoyance for you maybe is taken a little more seriously by your outer circle.
Exactly, and I think part of that is protectiveness.
They love you.
They've known you longer than your partner has, and they want what's best for you.
And so, if they hear you saying all the time negative stuff, and that's mainly what they're hearing, they're also going to internalize that and be, yeah, you're right, man.
He's a jerk, and then you guys make up.
Right.
Another area is, especially when you get married, you and your partner are gonna start putting in ways you want to run your house, ways you want to manage your finances.
And I think finance is an area where a lot of people have opinions.
So, a lot of people are willing to overstep and give you their opinion when it's unsolicited.
Again, just with the negative talk of your spouse or partner, the repetitiveness of this and the unsolicited nature is what might drive you to put in a boundary.
For us, I think this has been one of those where we have plenty of people who have given us unsolicited opinions on this.
Melissa and I, a long time ago, decided that we are gonna live debt-free, and that we don't use credit cards, we don't borrow money.
And it doesn't mean we didn't, we used to, and we've worked really hard to get out of that.
And I've got people in my inner circle who look at me like I have two heads when I say I don't have a credit card.
And they, well, why aren't you getting points, and you're doing spend, and you're doing this?
And I'm like, I don't need the, it's the simplicity, man, I got cash, it's good, we're okay.
Or I've got a brother-in-law who is really awesome at real estate and big deals, and he uses a lot of leverage for it.
He uses a lot of other people's money for it, works well for him.
And I think we've had times where he's always been really respectful about it, but I think there's conversations where he's giving advice or thinking I'm a little crazy.
The flip side of that is every once in a while he goes, yeah, but your way is so much less stressful.
I'm like, yeah, it is.
But just be knowing that finances is another area where you're probably going to want to put boundaries, especially if you do something that is against the trend, and us living a debt-free life is against the trend.
Most people don't do that.
Yeah, and it's not even just people that you know.
I had a stranger once at JCPenney, I was making a purchase.
She was the cashier, and she was an older woman, late 60s, early 70s, and she'd been there forever.
And she asked if I wanted to use my JCPenney card on it.
And I said, no, I'm going to pay cash.
And she said, would you like to apply for a JCPenney card?
And I said, no, I don't use credit cards.
And she looked at me and said, unsolicited, mind you, she said, but what if your husband divorces you?
Or what if he dies?
What are you going to do?
You need to have a credit history.
And, you know, I politely nod and said, oh, I own a business.
I'm good, but thank you.
Yeah, that's one of those where she was probably coming from a very sweet position, right?
Like, oh, poor lady, you have no protection.
Right.
Just realizing that, no, we just live a different lifestyle.
I've got plenty of protection around me.
That, I think, is an example of well-intended, unsolicited, and how do you deal with that?
No need to set a boundary with the cashier.
But if it's your, back to your aunt.
I think I said, I think I said Martha.
Aunt Martha, I don't know where that came from.
If aunt Martha repetitively says, oh, honey, you need a credit card just in case you get divorced, then maybe you need to draw, like, aunt Martha, no, like, let's stop.
Let's, we've, we've heard this.
Now, this is really bridging into sort of some stuff we talked about earlier, but we're going to give you some more examples on this.
The time with friends and family, and when you're trying to build new habits, is an area where you're almost for sure going to have to set boundaries.
Because people hold on to the family traditions, the holidays, the vacation travels, especially if you have things you do on an annual basis.
If you always take the family trip, or you always go to the mountains, or you always do the whatever, and understanding that you now have maybe limited days because of work, you might have limited days because you have two sets of families you're trying to integrate with.
Just know that that's an area you're, you're almost for sure going to have to put boundaries.
Now, we didn't have to deal with that quite as much because my family's not big on the holidays, and we certainly don't travel together.
Your family does a lot more of that.
So we had to be very intentional about how much time were we going to spend doing those things.
And I don't know, you, you might have a better sense, did that cause friction in your, your parents or anything?
Not that they shared.
Uh, you, I, so I don't think so.
I mean, even I, when was that three, four years ago, they were all going to Hawaii and they asked us to go, but it just didn't, we already had some other vacations planned.
It just didn't fit in and everybody's like, oh, that's a bummer.
Okay.
We'll tell you how it goes.
And, and that was the extent.
I'm trying to think if when we were younger, I don't believe there was pressure.
There was always an invitation, but there, there was, I didn't feel like, oh my gosh, if I say no, they're never going to talk to me again.
Well, there are, there are other people in our life that I think have felt pressure around this.
So if they're listening today, we're giving them permission to, to draw your own boundaries and create your own traditions.
Not that they need our permission to do it.
No, but, but sometimes people need to hear that.
Right, exactly.
One other area before we get into how do you go about setting boundaries that we really want to talk about is relationship privacy.
People always want to give advice on when you should do certain big things in your life.
When are you going to get married?
When are you going to have children?
When are you going to buy the house?
You as a couple must agree on what you're going to share in these areas to help prevent and create healthy boundaries.
Anything to add on that?
Yeah.
It, it's one of the, you have to be on the same page and sometimes that means discussing because what if you're not?
You started taking us down the road of agreement.
So let's really pivot into maybe the meat of this section, which is how do I set boundaries?
Once you've determined that a boundary needs to be set, how should you go about putting that into place?
To help you with this, we've created a free guide, which is available using the link in the description or the show notes.
All good outer circle boundaries start with alignment in the inner circle.
So to your point, before looking to set boundaries, make sure that you and your partner are aligned as a couple.
Reminder, Melissa is a mental health therapist, deals with this quite often.
There are some steps and processes that are healthy ways to put in boundaries.
These steps don't guarantee a seamless process.
They don't guarantee a successful process, but they are a good framework for, for doing that.
So Melissa, I think you have outlined five steps.
Why don't you take us through the first step?
What's the first step to setting a good, healthy boundary?
Scheduling the conversation.
Once you've decided that there's a boundary that need be set, the person that you need to set this boundary with, you, you need to schedule something with them.
And I'm a firm believer in by me, what I mean by scheduling is you don't just blurt it out.
Hey, I want to talk to you about something.
When's a good time.
Uh, you're going to get better cooperation and more likely to listen than if somebody's making dinner or trying to run out the door to an appointment.
Schedule the conversation.
I think that's a really important part because you've been thinking about this issue.
They probably have not.
Correct.
So if you blindside them with that, the response you're going to get is they're going to get defensive.
They might get angry.
They might not understand what the heck you're coming from.
Where is this coming from?
So being very intentional with setting up a time to discuss, I think that's great.
Like don't overlook that.
You really have to be mindful.
Set a time.
Okay.
So what's step number two?
It's share the issue using I statements.
I feel hurt when negative things are said about my partner.
Okay.
So the format there is I, and then whatever your feeling is and when trying out to use the word you in that I feel hurt when negative things are said about my partner.
Gotcha.
So instead of when you say negative things about my partner, it's just a general of when negative things are said about my partner.
The inference being that you are the one saying them.
So I don't need to actually attack with the you.
I can just assume that since I'm having a conversation with you, that's a non threatening way to state the problem.
And you nailed it there, which is people feel they go on the defensive when you say you.
So if you can just leave the word out, even if it's implied, leave the word out because people, their hackles go up.
Right.
The you becomes an attack on the person versus a statement more of, so the power of an I statement is you're framing it of this is how it impacts me.
You don't have to, you don't have to explicitly say, because you are doing this, that is implied in the conversation.
You're the one I'm having the conversation with.
Easier said than done.
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I don't know if there's people in your life, there are in my life that when I want to express something to them that maybe I feel might not be well received, I get nervous, I get, and I see nothing wrong with, especially if you're scheduling a conversation, you have time to think about this.
Maybe you rehearse a little bit.
I don't see anything wrong with that.
I suggest to people all the time, write it down.
The hope is, is that you've looked at it so you don't have to look at it while you're doing it.
You don't want it to be that stiff, but know in advance what it is that you would like to talk about, plan that I feel statement.
So I've stated the feeling that I'm having when something happens.
What's the next step?
What's step three?
It's clearly saying what the boundary is.
In this instance, I understand that you have your own thoughts and opinions on my partner, but I need you to refrain from sharing them with me.
Okay.
So that turned to a lot of you in that.
Is that the best way to say that?
Well, do you have another way to express the boundary?
I don't know.
That's a good question.
I feel hurt when negative things are said about my partner.
That's a good one.
So I guess that, so I guess the second part of it is it does become a you.
So I need you to stop.
Hmm.
Interesting.
It's how do you do that part without attacking?
Yeah.
It's, or can you, maybe you have to attack.
Maybe that's part of setting a boundary.
This is different than just a blanket.
I feel statement.
You're setting a boundary.
And I don't want to say boundaries are more serious than just what you need.
It's boundaries are just right.
So, right.
So if you and I were having a conflict on this, you and I might say, so I need us to whatever work to solve this issue.
But the difference here is that you actually are putting a boundary up that requires someone else to stop what they're doing.
Correct.
So it's going to inevitably turn into a, that's why you soften it at the beginning with the, I feels and how it's impacting you with the intent of, but here is the firm boundary and I need you to respect this.
And maybe that's another thing is like, well, I guess the question about this, what, how do consequences play into this then?
And maybe this rolls into your last point, which is how do I enforce.
That is part of number four.
Consistently.
That's key consistently.
If you sometimes tell them not to do it and other times you let it go.
No, you have to consistently enforce the boundary and it's pointing out, Hey, we had a talk last week about me being hurt when negative things are said about my significant other.
And now you've crossed this boundary again.
You have to then understand whatever your consequence for crossing that boundary is.
Maybe it's the conversation ends in the moment.
Maybe the relationship takes a break for a little while.
Probably depends on who you're interacting with, how serious the relationship is.
Is it something you can easily avoid?
Is this something you're going to have to repetitively deal with?
So I think your consequence probably varies depending on who you're setting the boundary with.
It really does.
And in that one in particular, you could say, Hey, if you can't respect my boundary, I don't know if we're going to be able to either discuss my relationship at all, or it might be, maybe we need to take a break from each other for a bit.
So you can think about, and I can think about, is this relationship, this friendship, this, you know, even family relationship, is it healthy?
Let's bring that home.
One was schedule the conversation.
Two is use I statements to state the issue, the feeling.
Three was to express your boundary clearly.
Four was to enforce that boundary.
So what's five?
Bring it home.
Express appreciation when the boundary is honored.
I have heard many times, and I think I have probably felt it as well.
When it's, when you're trying really hard to work on something and somebody doesn't acknowledge it, you're like, well, why should I?
When you noticed, so you're in the middle of this conversation with this person you've set a boundary with and you said something and you see them about to say something and they stop, you said, Hey, I know you wanted to say something right there, but you're respecting my boundary.
I really appreciate that.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So acknowledging it, that makes sense.
Yeah.
I'm assuming that when it's the removal of a behavior, you made a good point there when you actually see them doing it.
But even if you've just asked for it to happen, it's been a couple of weeks and it just hasn't happened.
Just circle back.
It's not a subject you can't bring up.
You very clearly brought it up.
So if someone's actually respecting it, just say, Hey, I appreciate it.
Absolutely.
In a couple of weeks, I've noticed it's changed.
Thanks.
I appreciate it.
That was the other way I was going to say it as well.
Is that you don't always have the opportunity to catch somebody in the, it's hard to catch somebody not doing something.
Right.
And yeah, I think it's a great way to a couple of weeks later, but if you, it's, it's basic conditioning behaviorism.
People want to be positively reinforced.
The vast majority of people want that.
And so if they've been really trying really hard not to say anything, even though they really want to, that that should be acknowledged.
Yeah.
And I think their, their efforts acknowledge.
Yeah.
And I think that actually a hundred percent compliance might be unrealistic.
So be okay with rewarding, incremental progress, moving a person toward there.
So if they've been crossing whatever boundary for a good bit of time and they're crossing it less, it doesn't have to be all or nothing to give a little praise, to get them moving in the right direction.
You're laughing.
Why are you laughing?
Because it's so funny.
Cause I mentioned behaviors moms.
You also have a psych degree and you do.
And so I was going to ask you, do you know what that's called?
When you intermittent reinforcement?
Nope.
Oh, come on.
Nope.
No, I was talking about when you, the little things that they do that are close to what it is that you want.
If, if they're getting there.
Oh, are you like, no, I don't know the term for that shaping.
I was going to say that, but I was going to say grooming.
And I know grooming is the grooming is the wrong term.
That is wrong, different, different area.
But I thought shaping first, but I didn't know if that was a term.
It was, it was, yeah, it's shaping.
You're getting, you getting them closer to the behavior.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Absolutely.
And now I want to close this on a really important note about setting boundaries.
Setting boundaries with your friends is one thing, right?
Setting boundaries at work is an entirely different thing.
Setting boundaries with their parents is unique.
And one of the things that really has to happen in a relationship is that if it's your parent, who is the person who needs the boundary set, you must be the one to set that boundary.
It is very unusual for your partner to be able to set a boundary with your parents.
It just doesn't work.
Yeah, agree.
A hundred percent.
All right.
Setting boundaries can be intimidating, but when done with intention and respect, they can lead to healthier and more peaceful interactions with your friends and family.
If you are ready to set some boundaries, get our free guide to get started.
The link may be found in the description or show notes.
That brings us to our first recurring segment, which we call Inked Moments.
In the Inked Moments section, we share a memory from our past that is related to the episode topic.
Today, we are going to share a little bit of unsolicited concern or advice that was shared with us when we had our kids.
You want to share this one?
Yeah.
Love you, Mom.
But it was between Mom and I. It was right after the girls were born, I'm pretty sure.
I don't think it happened before.
I think it might've actually been in the hospital.
And- It was before we even brought them home.
I think so.
And Mom approached me very kindly and said, hey, I'm really worried about Red Rock.
To explain, Red Rock was our 130 pound Rottweiler that had never had children in the home.
Valid concern, I think.
It was presented well.
I am concerned.
And that gave me the opportunity to say, we've thought about this.
The babies will never be left alone with the dog.
We have gates.
We have everything planned.
This is definitely something we've thought of.
But thank you, we got it covered.
We got this, Mom.
Yeah, we're okay on this front.
I think that's a micro example of you will have people who step in and give you very well-intended advice.
And I think in that place, it was coming from a very good position, but we knew not to leave the dog with the babies.
I mean, you know, we were young, but we weren't- We were new parents.
Maybe that was- I mean, yeah, exactly.
But maybe it needs to be said.
I don't know.
But that was, yeah, that was funny.
Because I remember you sharing that with me and I'm like, well, of course we have one.
Maybe my mom had been reading too many of those Carl books.
The old, yeah.
Carl book is a set of children's books that were written about a Rottweiler that babysits the baby at the house.
I mean, that was our running joke for a long time is that we would just let the dog babysit them.
Yeah.
But, all right.
So, that's a little memory that we had as we were trying to think about, you know, times where we've had, that's definitely one of the lighter unsolicited.
We've had lots of other unsolicited, but we don't need to dig up people's things.
Just know that we have set some boundaries in our life and we all do.
We set them with parents.
We set them with friends.
And I think, I actually think a dynamic that we, one dynamic we haven't experienced personally yet, and it probably will be coming, is our children setting boundaries with us.
I think we've done a pretty good job of not overstepping.
I'm assuming we'll overstep at some point and they'll have to come to us with some boundary.
But we've experienced all the other ones, the friends and having to set them with our own parents.
Let's move on and let's spend a little bit of time talking about your support network.
We mentioned earlier that unsolicited advice can come in, but there's also a whole other aspect of the outer circle that we want to just spend some time talking about, and that is the positive voices that you should listen to and you should trust, maybe even if it comes in unsolicited.
Now, there are people in your life that earn the right to speak into your life.
So let's spend just a few minutes talking about the areas we think you really should develop relationships with someone who more or less has the right at any time to speak in.
Doesn't mean you take their advice, but it's a trusted voice that if they tell you something that maybe is uncomfortable to you, maybe is different than what you're doing, you don't dismiss it for those reasons of jealousy or enmeshment.
You just really know, hey, this person's coming from a position of real trust.
I should pause and listen to this.
So what are some of the people that you want, relationships that you need to have in your life?
I think people that have a positive view of relationships.
There are some people, and I've met some usually through work that are like, you know what, relationships, they don't work out.
You can't trust anybody.
All men or all women do this, and that is not going to help you maintain your relationship, your healthy relationship.
If you're hearing, if you're surrounded by people that have negative thoughts about relationships and frequently voice them.
Right.
So if you have that aunt or uncle who's in a very long-term relationship and are the happiest couple you know, listen to them.
When they give you something that they see that is maybe not working, maybe listen a little bit more.
I would say another one is somebody who's good with money, and good with money doesn't mean necessarily they make a lot of money, but it means they make good decisions with their money.
So have a money person.
That's an important one.
And it's not just for investing in retirement stuff, but it's for how do I manage my money?
It's for when's the right time to buy housing?
What are the options?
Someone who challenges you on your financial side I think is a good voice to find.
What else?
I was going to say somebody that challenges you, period, but in a positive way, somebody that has earned the trust that will say, I don't know if you've thought that all the way through, or I have some feedback on that and you might not like it very much.
It's important to have those people in your life because there is no way on this earth that you were going to make the best decision all the time about your relationship to find somebody that is going to challenge you when it is needed.
Right.
And that person that you trust that is your sort of challenge person often sees things that you're too close and can't see yourself.
And so you need to have that.
And that might be a real tight bond with a sister.
It might be a best friend.
It might be a church elder.
It might be somebody like that that you've sort of built a relationship with.
But just have that person that when they come at you and say, you're doing something wrong, you at least pause and go, okay, maybe I'm doing something wrong.
What else?
Got any other ones?
Yeah.
Somebody that aligns with your values.
That could be religious values.
That could be spending habits.
That can be somebody that aligns with your values.
I think it's important to have that because it's good feedback that you can get from somebody that's similar to you as well.
Okay.
And then the last one is someone who you can share with who doesn't judge, right?
Just that I'm here.
Just give me what you got and yeah, I'm just going to hear it, listen to it, be okay with it and move on to have that voice where you can sort of vent without being judged.
And I was going to say, and if you can't find it, go see a counselor.
We get paid to do that.
Yeah, exactly.
So how are we doing in this area?
I mean, do we, how do you, do you feel like you have lots of those resources?
I'm trying to think through my mental list and I've got some of those, some of those I don't have and I'm sort of still looking for.
Yeah.
How are you doing on those?
Yeah, I'm doing pretty well.
I have a couple of really good friends and one's also a counselor, so that helps.
She can view things from a different angle that way.
And another one has quite a bit of life experience and I have a lot of them covered.
To be honest though, the financial one is you because I, yeah, I can safely say nobody else, I don't have anybody that's close to me that does pretty much what we do when it comes to finances.
Right.
Our children, that's the only, but that's, that's a bit different.
Yeah, exactly.
And I think one of the things that's really sort of to keep in mind is that as you progress through different phases of your life, coming out of college into young adulthood, maybe moving from one city to another city, you might have to rebuild these networks over and over and over again and they take time to build.
So just, but always be mindful of surrounding yourself with good, positive voices.
Yeah, absolutely.
Let's close with three takeaways from this section.
You need trusted voices in your life.
Don't think that just you and your partner can get it all covered.
You need external voices.
So even though we say protect yourself from the outer circle and put up boundaries when necessary, know that you need a good positive outer circle.
No single person will fit all of those things.
We just listed a ton of different things that you're looking for.
Don't try to get all of that from your spouse or your partner.
And don't try to get that all from a single friend.
You need other, you need multiple people in your life.
And then maybe most importantly, be open to listening when they challenge you, when they give you advice.
Be humble enough to take it and develop good enough friendships or relationships that you don't view them all as personal attacks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a great takeaway.
Even if they don't use I statements, even if they come at you and say you need to.
Yeah, exactly.
There, there are definitely people I need I statements from and others I'm just, just spit it out.
Right.
Just get to the, the, I can handle it.
Tell me what I'm doing wrong here.
Yeah.
Don't start with, I feel you're doing no to tell me I'm good.
Yeah.
Let's move to our last segment, pen to paper in our pen to paper segment.
We give you a practical challenge or reflection to help you build your own lasting marriage story.
This episode has centered on building healthy relationships with your outer circle.
Our challenge for you today is to look at your outer circle and identify an area or person that you need to establish a healthy boundary with and create an action plan to implement that boundary.
Now, all good outer circle boundaries start with alignment in the inner circle.
Melissa, if I've identified an area that I want to set a boundary with, with a friend or a family member, how do I create alignment and understanding with my partner?
You have to go to them and communicate that you, Hey, I've been seeing this.
I think we need to address this.
What do you think?
And you discuss it.
So many things come down to communication and this is another one of those.
Because like you do have to be in alignment.
It's so much easier and healthier and more productive to set boundaries.
If you and your partner agree, it's a boundary that needs to be set.
Right.
So you might be noticing something that's going on.
Your partner might be oblivious or your partner might have grown up in an environment where that was common and they never even bought it.
Question it.
Or it's possible that you're reading the situation wrong.
And it really isn't an overstep.
It's something different.
I can't necessarily think of an example, but it's possible that you are being oversensitive or you're mishearing or you're just recalling it wrong.
Right.
So having a conversation with your partner is really important to make sure that you both see the need for a boundary.
And then maybe also you need to discuss what is the boundary.
Yeah.
I think what you described there is like a validity check because maybe, yeah, maybe you're just reading it wrong if it's something like with his family and he can explain to you, oh no, that's because da, da, da, da, da.
Maybe you don't know.
Maybe there's an opportunity there or maybe there's a misunderstanding there.
When you create that alignment internally, that's also an opportunity to decide who needs to set that boundary because you might be noticing it, but maybe it's your partner who actually needs to set the boundary.
What are some scenarios where I notice something and the partner needs to be the one that sets the boundary?
Anything that has to do with his family or his friend.
If it's something with his friend, his buddy's going to listen to him, not you.
So don't put your spouse or your partner in a position of trying to set a boundary with somebody who's closer to you.
You need to take ownership of boundaries with your friends and your family.
That was very well said.
I like that.
Thanks.
I only practiced it like 10 times.
You did not.
Not at all.
So once you have alignment in the inner circle, it's time to implement the boundary with the outer circle.
To help you with this, we've created a free guide, which is available using the links in the description or show notes, or you can revisit the earlier section in this podcast where we walk through the five steps Melissa recommends to setting healthy boundaries in your relationships.
That's today's pen to paper segment.
That brings us to the end of today's discussion on the influence of external relationships on your long lasting love.
We hope you have heard a few things today that help you set healthy boundaries that protect your partnership.
In our next episode, we'll explore mental health in marriage and long-term relationships and explore how to support each other day to day and in periods of acute struggle.
With that, we want to thank you for joining us today.
We invite you to connect with us by joining our free Penned in Ink community.
Here, we shared free digital guides and occasional updates to help you build your own long lasting love.
Check the link in the description or show notes.
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Thanks everyone.